Interviewer: Hi sifu. Thank you for agreeing to allow me to interview you.
Sifu Zopa: OK. What would you like to ask?
Interviewer: You have an approach to teaching and learning that is different to other martial arts, other gwoons. Is this correct?
Sifu Zopa: I think in reality each art, each gwoon will have different ways of teaching. Yes, I think because I am a qualified teacher, have been a university lecturer, am a psychologist (one of the areas of expertise I am knowledgeable in is the psychology of learning), and I have taught karate-do as well as Wing Chun, this gives me a different orientation.
Interviewer: How would you say it is different, sifu?
Sifu Zopa: I can explicate and articulate the principles and theory more clearly as I am practised in teaching, in public speaking. That is one difference I would think. Not playing games by holding back information is important, too. Some sifu do that. They dole out information differentially. It’s often some of the Chinese sifu who do this because they are ethnocentric, racist and only believe in teaching Chinese. Of course some only believe in teaching the rich too! (Laughs and shakes his head). I put a great deal of thought into the lessons I offer and our syllabus. With my professional qualifications I’ve devised a structured, sequential spiral curriculum that offers what is possibly one of the best Wing Chun learning experiences my students could engage in anywhere. I also blend the traditional and modern. I continue to research not time wasting things like the “history” of Wing Chun, but how to train more effectively and more efficiently.
Interviewer: Sifu, do we differentiate as to the type of student you take? You do select your students, don’t you? Do you find that makes a difference?
Sifu Zopa: Definitely! Yes! I’ve assisted teaching and run classes that were open to the general public and they simply weren’t the same. Some were enjoyable but some now and then became tedious as you had people who really weren’t suited to learning Wing Chun or any other martial art paying to be taught. But no-one could teach them! You had people with ego problems and smart alec attitudes. You had people who had no concern for the safety of their peers. You had people with aggression issues. No, it just didn’t work. The sifu can’t focus on teaching if he has to play social worker, policeman and nurse during classes. As I’ve said many times, I focus on a relationship with my students, not a commercial transaction that devalues both the art, the sifu and the student. I do believe in only teaching worthwhile students with a decent character who work hard. I don’t discriminate on the grounds of race, sex or sexuality. Only on the basis of attitude and aptitude. But, we are not a public gwoon and I say upfront that prospective students must come for a trial lesson where they may decide their interest but I decide their suitability. We are a club that reserves the right – in fact I state this quite clearly – to refuse any applicant. So that is how I do, and always will do, things.
Interviewer: I’ve taken other martial arts classes and they’ve been very different – naturally in the art, but also in the sifu’s teaching approach. I’ve learnt some other Wing Chun, as you knew, sifu, but that too was differently taught as well as being a different art. I’ve seen other classes. It’s quite different at Yun Hoi Gwoon. What key factors do you think differentiate your style of teaching?
Sifu Zopa: Interesting question! First, of course we select appropriate students so that makes things far, far easier. That makes it easier both for me passing down the true art and for my students learning it. We are not open to the general public as I just said. To be blunt, that way we avoid having to deal with fools! As you know we have the singularly most challenging workout in the state, if not one of the most challenging in the country. The few people who visit by my invitation all attest that it is exceptionally difficult and they’ve not encountered the likes of it. That serves as a sieve for the lazy and those not fully committed, too. I think I ensure there are six factors operating in my classes with respect to how I try to teach and foster learning that seem to be significant. These are: structure, activity, reflection and revision, collaboration, connectivity, and challenge. I have always taught this way.
Interviewer: Can you elaborate on this briefly please, sifu? Structure?
Sifu Zopa: Sure! I believe above all in structure. This makes learning so much easier. The old ways of doing bits and pieces of the art all over the place and everyone in a gwoon doing their own thing simultaneously makes for very inefficient learning. As you know my classes are structured – they always contain the same segments and sequence. You spiral upwards as you progress. Often you cover the same material at a higher level where things are then different. Within segments they are structured. You know what to expect and can use this structure to train at home. As sifu, I need to break down the art to present it sequentially to the students as they mature in the art.
Interviewer: It almost sounds comical asking about your factor of “activity” sifu, as activity is integral to all martial arts. How do you see and operationalise this?
Sifu Zopa: I believe we have to operate the gwoon as an active learning environment. By this I mean whilst my students must be able to reliably replicate a given structure, a given string of techniques, a given application and a given outcome, they must be able to be fluent, creative, and imaginative in application. You can see I do this as you progress in san sau and chi sau to a point where you can react spontaneously from your neuro-muscular programming to any attack. Application is the essence of the art, of course. If you can’t apply everything you learn then you need to work on it. We must not rush through a rigid syllabus. In brief, activity in learning for me means we have to apply, apply, apply. There is no point spending half the night doing slow motion forms so we can fight at blurring speed! There is little point in spending half our training time on chi sau with the unexamined (and erroneous) belief it will teach you to fight! Chi sau has its place. It’s an exercise and teaches responsivity from a contact position, it teaches sticking and trapping but it is only part of the equation. We have to train against simulated realworld attacks – not against our gwoon mate’s Wing Chun! I believe a class has to be fast paced with value for your money and time invested. You don’t (or oughtn’t) come to train to stand around and chat or work at a leisurely pace.No-one ought to pay to take a martial arts class to hear the sifu talk too much. You have to be doing your training for as much of a session as possible. Not standing listening to the sifu rattle!
Interviewer: And what of collaboration, sifu?
Sifu Zopa:
I believe it is important in our gwoon to provide opportunities for the students to collaborate, to briefly discuss and explore the art with each other. Collaboration is of the essence of Wing Chun as it is an art more than any other that requires and focuses on partner work. You can’t learn if you have a partner who is lazy, who is a smart alec, who tries to aggressively dominate, who prattles about what they know or think, who doesn’t concentrate and focus their mind, who doesn’t work hard. This is why I select out such people! (Laughs)
Interviewer: I realise it doesn’t relate to our topic of teaching and learning Wing Chun, but at this point I’m wondering about collaboration with other martial artists, other Wing Chun. What’s you’re take on that, sifu?
Sifu Zopa: I personally collaborate with selected persons in the wider martial arts world to differing degrees and for different reasons. I am mature enough in our art and savvy enough about character judgment and politics to do this – although at times I expose myself to potentially tricky situations. Some I would simply never collaborate with as their system is fraudulent. Others I will only collaborate with to a limited extent and in certain limited spheres. There is no-one within travelling distance we could openly collaborate with if you refer to training openly with them. We would only do that with a decent practitioner of good character who does our art. As for students collaborating – it is too fraught with the possibilities of being polluted in your thinking, I’m afraid. It’s too easy to pick up foreign ideas or practices. That’s like letting your prize female animal loose and having her breed only to produce mongrel young. I don’t want to ever see (there is utterly no need) foreign material introduced to my Wing Chun. As you know I consider sparring a nonsense game which teaches bad habits, bad mindsets. So if a student of mine thought they needed to spar to learn to fight they’d not have understood san sau. Collaboration as you might use the term I this respect would be counterproductive. I encourage my students to read about other martial arts, to watch mpegs, to watch DVDs, to visit to observe other classes if they are welcomed. But there is no need to teach any outsiders our art.
Interviewer: OK. Thanks for that anser. Now, can you unpack our understanding of reflection and revision, please, sifu?
Sifu Zopa: Certainly! I believe that I ought to progressively provide the students with time to think about the art and mature in it. I see most Wing Chun classes in this country as rushing students through a syllabus to gain a quick – but bounded overview of the art. And, of course, to train “quickie sifus” who are then made to go out and open franchises for the financial empire. Students who learn this art quickly are inevitably going to be limited. I believe I have to ensure we have regular and adequate revision until the students have mastered a given aspect of the art. Students need to observe closely the models they see, to listen to instructions carefully, to remain open-minded but not mindless, and to critically self evaluate. I’m always stressing this. I believe that I ought to progressively provide the students with time to think about the art and mature in it. I see most Wing Chun classes in this country as rushing students through a syllabus to gain a quick – but bounded overview of the art. With the seniors I take them for another class where there is a lot of this and a lot of interaction specifically so this can occur.
Interviewer: And what of connectivity, sifu?
Sifu Zopa: I believe that my students need to be led to discover relationships within the art, to make connections to realworld attack scenarios, to connect the art to the world of attack. Connections often occur as a result of reflection on the principles and theory and concepts of the art. In this sense I’m reminded of the saying that “Wing Chun is the thinking person’s art”. Actually, I first heard iot as “thinking man” but seeing we have women students (and damn good ones!) we need to be non-sexist! Connectivity is a feature I try to emphasise by drawing out the relationships between techniques. So, connectivity applies within the art. You know, actually, my students must get far more explanation and theory, I think, than anyone else learning this art worldwide! (Laughs)
Interviewer: I’m chuckling again, lik eI did with your “activity” factor, sifu. Can you explain “challenging” for us please?
Sifu Zopa: Yes, I guess it does sound funny to use those two adjectives in the context of a martial arts class. The point though is firstly that many people intuit such things but don’t emphasise them, don’t verbalise and define them. Also, I refer not just to your practice of a martial art per se but to your learning. This admittedly is mind-body learning unlike a school subject where you sit in a classroom. Though I do believe these factors have their place there too. So, finally, as you know, I believe it is important that learning be made challenging. This means not only at the level of technical excellence but with respect to applications against increasingly difficult attacks and attackers. Many people would think and brag that their classes are “challenging” – but ours simply are! We don’t discuss our art with outsiders, nor do we need to brag. We jut get on with it! We train with the mind not the ego so we just get on with things. As we don’t engage in so-called martial arts activities outside our classes we don’t need to engage in the idiotic curiosity, comparisons, ego contests and chest beating that goes on. We can focus on ourselves. I set the highest standards I can but I also help and encourage each student to accept each successively increasing challenge. You may feel like you might die in training but actually you won’t! What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger! (Laughs)
Interviewer: You also encourage questioning don’t you, sifu?
Sifu Zopa: Oh, definitely! If I tell you something I have a reason. Otherwise I should not say it. If you don’t understand or disagree I encourage you to seek clarification. I think all good Wing Chun sifus do this – or should. The difference may lie in how openly, honestly, clearly they can give explanations. This is either because they may be unable to articulate an answer – in which case they ought not be teaching. Or, it may be whether they are willing to – they may be withholding information. And, of course, this relates to their underlying knowledge base and moral base to begin with. And that, to a great extent, depends on your lineage as well as your sifu. Not all are equal – by any means. I have to coin a saying here: “Not all sifus are sifus!” Think on this.
Interviewer: Thank you sifu for an interesting interview, sifu.